Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:51 pm
Big Graeme
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Mar 08 2002 Posts: 26578 Location: On the set of NEDS...
samwire wrote:was this the justification for labour introducing tuition fees?
FFS, can you not get out of the if you don't support the Tories you must support Labour argument? Most of the ideology behind the last administration was born of Thatcherite thinking.
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:30 am
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
Big Graeme wrote:FFS, can you not get out of the if you don't support the Tories you must support Labour argument? Most of the ideology behind the last administration was born of Thatcherite thinking.
Thats the problem, they can't, its football supporter politics and they'll never shake it off while the actual politicians behave like petulant kids in debates and in leadership.
If you brought out a new footbal style shirt every year for the parliamentary party's the fools would buy them...
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:03 am
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
JerryChicken wrote:If you brought out a new footbal style shirt every year for the parliamentary party's the fools would buy them...
FFS will you please refrain from giving Gideon tips to kick-start the economy
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:48 pm
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
cod'ead wrote:FFS will you please refrain from giving Gideon tips to kick-start the economy
It'll come, and they'll change the design every six months.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:58 pm
sally cinnamon
Club Coach
Joined: Oct 12 2004 Posts: 16271
JerryChicken wrote:Thats the problem, they can't, its football supporter politics and they'll never shake it off while the actual politicians behave like petulant kids in debates and in leadership.
If you brought out a new footbal style shirt every year for the parliamentary party's the fools would buy them...
Indeed.
As it is 2013, three years since a Labour government, it will be interesting to see who the Tory supporters blame for the current state of the economy.
We know how much they like to go on about the Labour government that replaced Ted Heath in 1974, and had to go cap in hand to the IMF two years later in 1976, as a warning of what happens when you get a Labour government. Of course Ted Heath's Tory government would have had nothing to do with this.
On the other hand I've noticed another pattern.
Margaret Thatcher comes into office in 1979, we have a recession from 1980-81. John Major comes into office in 1990, we have a recession from 1990-91. David Cameron comes into office in 2010. Guess what happened from 2011-12.
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Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:03 pm
Ajw71
Player Coach
Joined: Feb 23 2006 Posts: 1978
sally cinnamon wrote:Indeed.
As it is 2013, three years since a Labour government, it will be interesting to see who the Tory supporters blame for the current state of the economy.
We know how much they like to go on about the Labour government that replaced Ted Heath in 1974, and had to go cap in hand to the IMF two years later in 1976, as a warning of what happens when you get a Labour government. Of course Ted Heath's Tory government would have had nothing to do with this.
On the other hand I've noticed another pattern.
Margaret Thatcher comes into office in 1979, we have a recession from 1980-81. John Major comes into office in 1990, we have a recession from 1990-91. David Cameron comes into office in 2010. Guess what happened from 2011-12.
Strange how it's only 'footballer supporter politics' when it's people defending Tories and attacking Labour. Not the other way round.
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:18 pm
TrinityIHC
International Board Member
Joined: Jun 28 2002 Posts: 4961 Location: Outside your remit
sally cinnamon wrote:Indeed.
As it is 2013, three years since a Labour government, it will be interesting to see who the Tory supporters blame for the current state of the economy.
We know how much they like to go on about the Labour government that replaced Ted Heath in 1974, and had to go cap in hand to the IMF two years later in 1976, as a warning of what happens when you get a Labour government. Of course Ted Heath's Tory government would have had nothing to do with this.
On the other hand I've noticed another pattern.
Margaret Thatcher comes into office in 1979, we have a recession from 1980-81. John Major comes into office in 1990, we have a recession from 1990-91. David Cameron comes into office in 2010. Guess what happened from 2011-12.
To be fair it's not like the tories come into office and instantly plunge the country into recession, the seeds are sowed by previous successive financially inept (usually Labour) governments.
I hold no kind of allegiance with any particular parties though, I just see who's looking the best bet at election time and go with them.
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:20 pm
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
Ajw71 wrote:Strange how it's only 'footballer supporter politics' when it's people defending Tories and attacking Labour. Not the other way round.
No, it can easily be football supporter politics the other way around and I saw enough of it the other way around when I lived in the north east for some time where you'd still be a brave person to go canvassing wearing a blue rosette, certainly in the cities anyway.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:22 pm
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
TrinityIHC wrote:To be fair it's not like the tories come into office and instantly plunge the country into recession, the seeds are sowed by previous successive financially inept (usually Labour) governments.
Although that wasn't the case with at least two out of three of those example dates.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Re: Universal benefits vs Means-testing
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:23 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
TrinityIHC wrote:To be fair it's not like the tories come into office and instantly plunge the country into recession, the seeds are sowed by previous successive financially inept (usually Labour) governments.
I hold no kind of allegiance with any particular parties though, I just see who's looking the best bet at election time and go with them.
There is one serious, major flaw in your observation: John Major tookover from Thatcher. Are you now asserting that her government were financially inept?
There's also the fact that the deficit was lower in 2007 (prior to the bank bailouts) than it was when Labour took over in 1997
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
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