FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1405 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 ... 141  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:43 pm 
International Star
New Signing
User avatar

Joined: Oct 31 2011
Posts: 76
Surely, a second referendum is inevitable now?
Isn’t a hope in hell that either no deal or May’s deal will gain a parliamentary majority (good ol’ sovereignty) so it will be put back to the people.

It could all be done in one referendum. First question: Do you want to Leave the EU or Remain? Second Question: In the event of a majority Leave vote, would you prefer to leave on the terms of the PM's deal, or with no deal?

And before the more swivel-eyed leave supporters start spouting the undemocratic nonsense, this would not be "overturning" the result of the 2016 referendum, any more than a General Election overturns the policies and mandates arising from the previous General Election. Indeed, democracy can only operate properly and fairly if voting is an ongoing process.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:47 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Apr 24 2011
Posts: 17982
Strinket wrote:Surely, a second referendum is inevitable now?
Isn’t a hope in hell that either no deal or May’s deal will gain a parliamentary majority (good ol’ sovereignty) so it will be put back to the people.

It could all be done in one referendum. First question: Do you want to Leave the EU or Remain? Second Question: In the event of a majority Leave vote, would you prefer to leave on the terms of the PM's deal, or with no deal?

And before the more swivel-eyed leave supporters start spouting the undemocratic nonsense, this would not be "overturning" the result of the 2016 referendum, any more than a General Election overturns the policies and mandates arising from the previous General Election. Indeed, democracy can only operate properly and fairly if voting is an ongoing process.



A second referendum would only perpetuate the Brexit merry go round.

Even if "remain" won the second referendum, the result is likely to remain extremely close and then what ? Best of 3, best of 5.

Unfortunately we still have to rely on the elected members to carry out the will of the people, something that so far, they have failed at rather miserably

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:05 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Jun 01 2007
Posts: 12647
Location: Leicestershire.
wrencat1873 wrote:A second referendum would only perpetuate the Brexit merry go round.

Even if "remain" won the second referendum, the result is likely to remain extremely close and then what ? Best of 3, best of 5.

Unfortunately we still have to rely on the elected members to carry out the will of the people, something that so far, they have failed at rather miserably


The problem is, it is the wills of the people, and whatever they do, those that agree with them will take it for granted and those that don’t will be furious with them. And whatever they do most people will disagree.

I accept that you don’t want to tie negotiators hands, but ‘leave’ was a ridiculously open option. It had to be leave and go somewhere somewhat specific. By leaving it so open, people could project their own preferences onto it, which in some cases were/are mutually exclusive.

So a general election made sense from that perspective... but led to a hung parliament. There’s no settled public consensus still, more than two years on, on what Brexit should look like.






'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:56 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14845
tigertot wrote:Which did people vote for?

It is very simple. People voted to leave the EU. That was followed by a General Election in which the two parties receiving the overwhelming majority of votes cast stood on manifestos stating they would honour the referendum result. So, any daft so called People's Vote should not include a 'remain' option without first holding a general election where at least one major party stands on a Remain ticket and wins.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:03 pm 
Player Coach
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Oct 26 2005
Posts: 3829
Location: In the seaside town ...that they forgot to bomb
Strinket wrote:Surely, a second referendum is inevitable now?
Isn’t a hope in hell that either no deal or May’s deal will gain a parliamentary majority (good ol’ sovereignty) so it will be put back to the people.

It could all be done in one referendum. First question: Do you want to Leave the EU or Remain? Second Question: In the event of a majority Leave vote, would you prefer to leave on the terms of the PM's deal, or with no deal?

And before the more swivel-eyed leave supporters start spouting the undemocratic nonsense, this would not be "overturning" the result of the 2016 referendum, any more than a General Election overturns the policies and mandates arising from the previous General Election. Indeed, democracy can only operate properly and fairly if voting is an ongoing process.


Whilst a laudable suggestion, I would claim many voters would struggle with the concept of two questions on one paper!

Some could say I'm mocking many of those who dragged themselves out for the first time in their lives to stick it to "The Man" -

They'd be right.






In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:50 pm 
Player Coach
Player Coach

Joined: Sep 12 2010
Posts: 11412
Location: Behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll in Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas.
Let’s remember, most leave voters were uneducated when it came to politics and didn’t know what they were voting for as opposed to remain voters who surely didn’t include any 18/19/20 year olds voting for the first time who based their votes on scaremonging news they saw on social media or because their favourite music star backed remain.






"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."

23/08/2014

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:10 am 
Club Captain
Junior Player

Joined: Feb 27 2017
Posts: 170
Dally wrote:It is very simple. People voted to leave the EU. That was followed by a General Election in which the two parties receiving the overwhelming majority of votes cast stood on manifestos stating they would honour the referendum result. So, any daft so called People's Vote should not include a 'remain' option without first holding a general election where at least one major party stands on a Remain ticket and wins.


Excellent post and the only way the basic principal of democracy is preserved. The supposed uneducated leave voters is a flimsy fallacy perpetuated by those that believe that democracy consists of "Have a vote, if we lose we have another"!

There are many observers that are actually saying WTO conditions are nothing that is unmanageable or to be frightened of in the event of no deal.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:01 am 
International Chairman
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 17146
Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
Dally wrote:It is very simple. People voted to leave the EU. That was followed by a General Election in which the two parties receiving the overwhelming majority of votes cast stood on manifestos stating they would honour the referendum result. So, any daft so called People's Vote should not include a 'remain' option without first holding a general election where at least one major party stands on a Remain ticket and wins.


It's like voting for a political party with no manifesto who then deliver the opposite of what you thought then no-one being able to complain.






“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21

A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:07 am 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Apr 24 2011
Posts: 17982
Trevork52 wrote:
There are many observers that are actually saying WTO conditions are nothing that is unmanageable or to be frightened of in the event of no deal.


Is this yet more bravado and bull from planet leave ?
The very same group who said we would be no worse off, leave without a divorce bill, have exactly the same trading terms AND save £350,000,000 which we would then use for the NHS.
I think these are some of the reasons why "you" are labelled as "uneducated" etc
NONE of their "benefits" are likely to be true but, if you close your eyes and keep everything crossed, everything will be just fine, honest.
Free movement will end, in both directions but, this will be replaced by an increase in net immigration from elsewhere, something that is already apparent in the latest figures:

Table 1: Latest Migration Statistics, Year Ending June 2018

All Citizenships British Non-British EU Non-EU
Immigration 625,000 80,000 545,000 219,000 326,000
Emigration 351,000 128,000 223,000 145,000 78,000
Net Migration 273,000 -49,000 322,000 74,000 248,000

As you can see, the numbers from the EU are dropping but, the "controlled" immigration is now rising.

Who would have thought that this could happen, it's as though someone may have had an agenda :shock:

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:35 am 
Club Coach
First Team Player

Joined: Feb 16 2005
Posts: 2493
Location: Landan
Strinket wrote:Surely, a second referendum is inevitable now?
Isn’t a hope in hell that either no deal or May’s deal will gain a parliamentary majority (good ol’ sovereignty) so it will be put back to the people.

It could all be done in one referendum. First question: Do you want to Leave the EU or Remain? Second Question: In the event of a majority Leave vote, would you prefer to leave on the terms of the PM's deal, or with no deal?

And before the more swivel-eyed leave supporters start spouting the undemocratic nonsense, this would not be "overturning" the result of the 2016 referendum, any more than a General Election overturns the policies and mandates arising from the previous General Election. Indeed, democracy can only operate properly and fairly if voting is an ongoing process.


I don't think that No Deal needs a parliamentary majority. It is the default position, and anything other than a no deal needs a majority to agree. So, if nobody does anything between now and the 29th March, we leave the EU with no deal.

Given how negotiations with the EU have gone, does anybody trust this lot (either side of the house) to negotiate trade deals around the world?

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1405 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 ... 141  Next





It is currently Tue Dec 03, 2024 4:28 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 62 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Tue Dec 03, 2024 4:28 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Film game
Wanderer
5938
2m
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
34s
Film game
Wanderer
5938
35s
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
1m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
The Dentist
4060
1m
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
31
1m
Rumours and signings v9
MadDogg
28918
2m
Ground Improvements
Redscat
256
4m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregular Ho
11
4m
Planning for next season
Leyther in n
196
4m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2647
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
Benny Profan
3
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregular Ho
11
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
31
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
52
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Film game
Wanderer
5938
2m
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
34s
Film game
Wanderer
5938
35s
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
1m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
The Dentist
4060
1m
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
31
1m
Rumours and signings v9
MadDogg
28918
2m
Ground Improvements
Redscat
256
4m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregular Ho
11
4m
Planning for next season
Leyther in n
196
4m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2647
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
Benny Profan
3
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Irregular Ho
11
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
31
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
52
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.