I'm not sure FA as to whether you're the Oracle or the Orifice of this Forum. Perhaps you could share your thoughts on the part that her two previous suicide attempts in the last 12 months could have played.......?
And in light of these revelations, would a concerned chappie such as yourself be rather keen to ask the odious Mr Vaz what knowledge he had of this?
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:My original post remains 100% my opinion. Unlike you, seemingly: Er, yes. She did. Maybe even on your planet they accept that now? Credit though for managing to twist things round to the extent that you now suggest most of the "blame" for the suicide can be put on the nurse's mental health. That is truly sick, if ingenious.
selectively quoted by you but you embarasss yourself even more by still trying to blame others rather than accepting that this was a woman with significant mental health problems who tried to kill herself twice before the incident with the DJs occurred.
Anything could have tipped her over the edge into a successful suicide attempt. It is just unfortunate it was the actions of a radio station.
Still you were quick to get the pitchforks out before all the facts were known. You then had the nerve to accuse others who said lets wait for the facts to come out before we jump on the bandwagon.
|Have you put the pitchforks and flaming torches away yet or still wanting the Djs and radio station dragged through the streets for a public flogging
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rumpelstiltskin wrote:I'm not sure FA as to whether you're the Oracle or the Orifice of this Forum.
Well, I should give it some more thought; it's not your strong suit, but it beats the hell out of what passes for your wit.
rumpelstiltskin wrote:Perhaps you could share your thoughts on the part that her two previous suicide attempts in the last 12 months could have played.......?
Yes, that's pretty straightforward. None. Had the call not been broadcast around the world, there is NO reason to suppose the nurse would not have gone back to work and done her daily job, just as she uneventfully had for the years she had done it.
rumpelstiltskin wrote:...to ask the odious Mr Vaz what knowledge he had of this?
Why do you think I am remotely interested in Vaz?
I am 'concerned' for the victim and her family, as I can imagine what they are going through, and all for a cheap laugh and radio ratings.
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
Joined: Feb 17 2002 Posts: 28357 Location: MACS0647-JD
Durham Giant wrote:selectively quoted by you
Rot. What embarrasses you now, is that you posed the question of whether it was even suicide. If you are trying to suggest that my "selective quote" misrepresents what you said, sadly it doesn't.
Durham Giant wrote:but you embarasss yourself even more by still trying to blame others
I really don't. As I have said from the beginning, I blame the radio station who chose to broadcast the tape. And frankly don't see how any fair minded person could do otherwise.
Durham Giant wrote:...rather than accepting that this was a woman with significant mental health problems who tried to kill herself twice before the incident with the DJs occurred. Anything could have tipped her over the edge into a successful suicide attempt.
I'm sorry - I never realised that you were her psychiatrist. Now that you have let the cat out of the bag, you may as well tell us - WHAT "significant mental health problems did she have in the first week of December 2012? Come on, you've made the claim. What "edge" was she on? What other sort of thing could have happened to push her over it? Was she just looking for an excuse, then? "Anything"? Is this your seriously considered view?
What I do know is she had lived to be 46, was a wife and a mother of 2 children, and a very responsible job, described by all as a dedicated and caring member of the nursing profession.
But OK, let's for a second run with your theory; this means then that it's OK to pick on people who might - for all you know or care - be vulnerable, ill, or depressed, because if they then suffer, well, that's their lookout innit, not your fault they woz a nutter, or had a weak heart, or whatever, eh?
Ironically, the presenters at the heart of the story don't actually seem a bit like that, they seem to be pretty distraught at the death. If you thought about it for a second, you would realise that the "revelations" won't actually have made one iota of difference to how they feel. Your crass take on it seems to be like "Ah, so apparently she tried to top herself before then, phew, well thank feck for that. For a minute there I felt a bit guilty"
Durham Giant wrote:..Still you were quick to get the pitchforks out before all the facts were known. You then had the nerve to accuse others who said lets wait for the facts to come out before we jump on the bandwagon.
Liar. Whilst I have dismissed dark conspiracy hinters like you and your ignorant mate, I am not on any bandwagon, and my original post remains perfectly true. Plus, as I have several times previously said, all the facts are NOT known nor will they be until the inquest finds them. Funny how that was your claimed position, but now you suddenly seem to know all the facts.
Durham Giant wrote:.Have you put the pitchforks and flaming torches away yet or still wanting the Djs and radio station dragged through the streets for a public flogging
I've a plan for you, liar, either post where I said any such thing, or else apologise for lying.
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
Quote:Ferocious Aardvark Rot. What embarrasses you now, is that you posed the question of whether it was even suicide
. Until the inquest states it was suicide it is only an apparent suicide. You are the one who now talks about waiting for the inquest well that is what the inquest does.
Quote:I really don't. As I have said from the beginning, I blame the radio station who chose to broadcast the tape. And frankly don't see how any fair minded person could do otherwise.
Because the evidence we have seen shows that this was a woman who had Mental Health problems had recently being under the care of a Psychiatrist and had made TWO serous suicide attempts this year
Quote: Now that you have let the cat out of the bag, you may as well tell us - WHAT "significant mental health problems did she have in the first week of December 2012?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... tempt.html But you know this but still try to put the blame on the prank as being the cause of it all. Do You think that the information we have on her recent medical history suggests she had significant mental health problems at the begining of the year and that all those problems had suddenly vanished 11 months later and that only the prank made her ill again.
Quote:What I do know is she had lived to be 46, was a wife and a mother of 2 children, and a very responsible job, described by all as a dedicated and caring member of the nursing profession.
Ooh lets play the emotional guilt trip card. Nowt like whipping up the emotions when you are on a crusade.
Quote:Liar. Whilst I have dismissed dark conspiracy hinters like you and your ignorant mate
,
My conspiracy theory was that there is more to come out in the wash and i quoted on many occasions key issues that needed to be known about before we could piece together what caused the death of the nurse Including HER MENTAL HEALTH.
Quote:I am not on any bandwagon, and my original post remains perfectly true
.
Quote:The people who took the decision to broadcast clearly have appalling judgment. I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted. They aren't fit to be in charge of a broadcast station and should resign or have their licence pulled FA page 11[
Quote:On all known facts the nurse took her life as the final act in a short sequence of events in which the prank call was the first, and so the outcome of the prank was, ultimately, her death. FA page 13
So the whole of the press is demanding heads must role, you are looking for prosecutions and a Radio station to have its licence pulled. Not that you are on the bandwagon mate
Quote: Plus, as I have several times previously said, all the facts are NOT known nor will they be until the inquest finds them.
.
Quote:You say "No-one does". Well, her husband is reportedly "seething" with the presenters and the hospital management, and I venture to suggest that having read her suicide note, he may have a fairly good idea FA page 13
so now you are saying lets wait for the inquest to know the facts but 12 pages ago you were saying that because of selective quotes from the family you knew enough
I was not the one apportioning blame until facts came out. You were all for the judge , jury and executioner before we knew anything.
Quote:Funny how that was your claimed position, but now you suddenly seem to know all the facts.
NO i dont know all the facts but i was not demanding heads should role before we knew anything.
I still think there is more to come out in the wash particularly the role of hospital management. When we know that maybe then we should talk about who should lose their jobs. Yet you knew who should be sacked on page 11
Quote:I've a plan for you, liar, either post where I said any such thing, or else apologise for lying.
[/quote]
I wont accuse you of being a liar as it is clear you are deluded. Keep taking the tablets and see your therapist. Then you will not accuse others who have tried to say let's wait for the facts to emerge before we decide where all the blame lies and what consequences are appropriate for those involved.
Quote:Ferocious Aardvark Rot. What embarrasses you now, is that you posed the question of whether it was even suicide
. Until the inquest states it was suicide it is only an apparent suicide. You are the one who now talks about waiting for the inquest well that is what the inquest does.
Quote:I really don't. As I have said from the beginning, I blame the radio station who chose to broadcast the tape. And frankly don't see how any fair minded person could do otherwise.
Because the evidence we have seen shows that this was a woman who had Mental Health problems had recently being under the care of a Psychiatrist and had made TWO serous suicide attempts this year
Quote: Now that you have let the cat out of the bag, you may as well tell us - WHAT "significant mental health problems did she have in the first week of December 2012?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... tempt.html But you know this but still try to put the blame on the prank as being the cause of it all. Do You think that the information we have on her recent medical history suggests she had significant mental health problems at the begining of the year and that all those problems had suddenly vanished 11 months later and that only the prank made her ill again.
Quote:What I do know is she had lived to be 46, was a wife and a mother of 2 children, and a very responsible job, described by all as a dedicated and caring member of the nursing profession.
Ooh lets play the emotional guilt trip card. Nowt like whipping up the emotions when you are on a crusade.
Quote:Liar. Whilst I have dismissed dark conspiracy hinters like you and your ignorant mate
,
My conspiracy theory was that there is more to come out in the wash and i quoted on many occasions key issues that needed to be known about before we could piece together what caused the death of the nurse Including HER MENTAL HEALTH.
Quote:I am not on any bandwagon, and my original post remains perfectly true
.
Quote:The people who took the decision to broadcast clearly have appalling judgment. I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted. They aren't fit to be in charge of a broadcast station and should resign or have their licence pulled FA page 11[
Quote:On all known facts the nurse took her life as the final act in a short sequence of events in which the prank call was the first, and so the outcome of the prank was, ultimately, her death. FA page 13
So the whole of the press is demanding heads must role, you are looking for prosecutions and a Radio station to have its licence pulled. Not that you are on the bandwagon mate
Quote: Plus, as I have several times previously said, all the facts are NOT known nor will they be until the inquest finds them.
.
Quote:You say "No-one does". Well, her husband is reportedly "seething" with the presenters and the hospital management, and I venture to suggest that having read her suicide note, he may have a fairly good idea FA page 13
so now you are saying lets wait for the inquest to know the facts but 12 pages ago you were saying that because of selective quotes from the family you knew enough
I was not the one apportioning blame until facts came out. You were all for the judge , jury and executioner before we knew anything.
Quote:Funny how that was your claimed position, but now you suddenly seem to know all the facts.
NO i dont know all the facts but i was not demanding heads should role before we knew anything.
I still think there is more to come out in the wash particularly the role of hospital management. When we know that maybe then we should talk about who should lose their jobs. Yet you knew who should be sacked on page 11
Quote:I've a plan for you, liar, either post where I said any such thing, or else apologise for lying.
[/quote]
I wont accuse you of being a liar as it is clear you are deluded. Keep taking the tablets and see your therapist. Then you will not accuse others who have tried to say let's wait for the facts to emerge before we decide where all the blame lies and what consequences are appropriate for those involved.
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Last edited by Durham Giant on Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Durham Giant wrote:. Until the inquest states it was suicide it is only an apparent suicide. You are the one who now talks about waiting for the inquest well that is what the inquest does.
Everyone knows the poor woman committed suicide. Everyone knew from the moment we learned she had hanged herself in her room, (except those who darkly hinted it was "very convenient" for the hospital, or those who said "was it even suicide).
Durham Giant wrote:... the evidence we have seen shows that this was a woman who had Mental Health problems ...
In my opinion people who have or previously had any mental or physical health issues have the same right to life as the fit and well. I see she had gone well down in your estimation due to her "mental health problems" and you have excused the whole mess by basically saying she could have topped herself at any moment so the prank made no real odds. I find that standpoint pretty obscene, so let's leave it at that.
For the last time, I do NOT blame the PRANK as being the cause of it all, and why you keep lying that I do is a mystery. For the last time, I have 100% clearly said I place the lion's share of the blame of the radio station who should never have run with the story, they chose to do so after presumably considered deliberation, and it is them who I mainly blame, for the worldwide media shiitstorm that this terrible decision created. If you are going to comment on my opinions, could you at least not lie about what they are?
Durham Giant wrote:..Do You think that the information we have on her recent medical history suggests she had significant mental health problems at the begining of the year ...
I don't have ANY information on her recent medical history and neither do you. If you mean the reports that she had been treated for depression and had recently finished that treatment, if those are accurate then it would seem to me that health professionals likely decided that she was in reasonable health. But what would a psychiatrist and the doctors who treated her know, eh? Shame they didn't just ask you, you could have told them that far from being well, she was on the edge and anything could have tipped her over it. I don't know how you know this, but maybe they should sack the mental health professionals and just ring you for an opinion, eh?
Durham Giant wrote:.and that all those problems had suddenly vanished 11 months later and that only the prank made her ill again.
More disingenuous. mocking crap. The only reports there have been seem to suggest that she had been very well cared for since the reported incident apparently 11 months ago, and that she had only quite recently completed anti-depressant treatment. Knowing all this, you still make the silly statement about "all those problems suddenly vanishing". On such information as has come out, I think she had been well treated and finished a reasonably lengthy course of treatment. and was doing a responsible job, reportedly very well.
Durham Giant wrote:My conspiracy theory was that there is more to come out in the wash ...
No, it was "was it even suicide."
Durham Giant wrote:so now you are saying lets wait for the inquest to know the facts
No I am not saying "let's wait for the inquest". Agreeing the rather obvious statement that the full facts will only come out at inquest does not operate as a bar to discussing what information is already in the public domain.
Durham Giant wrote:....I still think there is more to come out in the wash particularly the role of hospital management.
I have already said repeatedly that whilst we don't know anything directly about the role of hospital management, we do know the family has been critical of it, and we do know one of the notes left was devoted to the hospital's role. As we know nothing else, and as she took the trouble to write a note about the hospital management prior to killing herself, that is with respect not a great insight.
Durham Giant wrote:... When we know that maybe then we should talk about who should lose their jobs. Yet you knew who should be sacked on page 11
I think what the radio station did was unacceptable and they should face the consequences. If they have also committed criminal offences then i think they should be prosecuted. I think the decision to broadcast their tape was such a bad error of judgment that it does put in question the fitness of whoever took the decision to continue in their roles. [/quote]
Durham Giant wrote:... I wont accuse you of being a liar as it is clear you are deluded. Keep taking the tablets and see your therapist.
I would invite you to unconditionally withdraw that. There's no need for it.
Durham Giant wrote:. Until the inquest states it was suicide it is only an apparent suicide. You are the one who now talks about waiting for the inquest well that is what the inquest does.
Everyone knows the poor woman committed suicide. Everyone knew from the moment we learned she had hanged herself in her room, (except those who darkly hinted it was "very convenient" for the hospital, or those who said "was it even suicide).
Durham Giant wrote:... the evidence we have seen shows that this was a woman who had Mental Health problems ...
In my opinion people who have or previously had any mental or physical health issues have the same right to life as the fit and well. I see she had gone well down in your estimation due to her "mental health problems" and you have excused the whole mess by basically saying she could have topped herself at any moment so the prank made no real odds. I find that standpoint pretty obscene, so let's leave it at that.
For the last time, I do NOT blame the PRANK as being the cause of it all, and why you keep lying that I do is a mystery. For the last time, I have 100% clearly said I place the lion's share of the blame of the radio station who should never have run with the story, they chose to do so after presumably considered deliberation, and it is them who I mainly blame, for the worldwide media shiitstorm that this terrible decision created. If you are going to comment on my opinions, could you at least not lie about what they are?
Durham Giant wrote:..Do You think that the information we have on her recent medical history suggests she had significant mental health problems at the begining of the year ...
I don't have ANY information on her recent medical history and neither do you. If you mean the reports that she had been treated for depression and had recently finished that treatment, if those are accurate then it would seem to me that health professionals likely decided that she was in reasonable health. But what would a psychiatrist and the doctors who treated her know, eh? Shame they didn't just ask you, you could have told them that far from being well, she was on the edge and anything could have tipped her over it. I don't know how you know this, but maybe they should sack the mental health professionals and just ring you for an opinion, eh?
Durham Giant wrote:.and that all those problems had suddenly vanished 11 months later and that only the prank made her ill again.
More disingenuous. mocking crap. The only reports there have been seem to suggest that she had been very well cared for since the reported incident apparently 11 months ago, and that she had only quite recently completed anti-depressant treatment. Knowing all this, you still make the silly statement about "all those problems suddenly vanishing". On such information as has come out, I think she had been well treated and finished a reasonably lengthy course of treatment. and was doing a responsible job, reportedly very well.
Durham Giant wrote:My conspiracy theory was that there is more to come out in the wash ...
No, it was "was it even suicide."
Durham Giant wrote:so now you are saying lets wait for the inquest to know the facts
No I am not saying "let's wait for the inquest". Agreeing the rather obvious statement that the full facts will only come out at inquest does not operate as a bar to discussing what information is already in the public domain.
Durham Giant wrote:....I still think there is more to come out in the wash particularly the role of hospital management.
I have already said repeatedly that whilst we don't know anything directly about the role of hospital management, we do know the family has been critical of it, and we do know one of the notes left was devoted to the hospital's role. As we know nothing else, and as she took the trouble to write a note about the hospital management prior to killing herself, that is with respect not a great insight.
Durham Giant wrote:... When we know that maybe then we should talk about who should lose their jobs. Yet you knew who should be sacked on page 11
I think what the radio station did was unacceptable and they should face the consequences. If they have also committed criminal offences then i think they should be prosecuted. I think the decision to broadcast their tape was such a bad error of judgment that it does put in question the fitness of whoever took the decision to continue in their roles. [/quote]
Durham Giant wrote:... I wont accuse you of being a liar as it is clear you are deluded. Keep taking the tablets and see your therapist.
I would invite you to unconditionally withdraw that. There's no need for it.
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:Everyone knows the poor woman committed suicide. Everyone knew from the moment we learned she had hanged herself in her room, (except those who darkly hinted it was "very convenient" for the hospital, or those who said "was it even suicide).
In my opinion people who have or previously had any mental or physical health issues have the same right to life as the fit and well. I see she had gone well down in your estimation due to her "mental health problems" and you have excused the whole mess by basically saying she could have topped herself at any moment so the prank made no real odds. I find that standpoint pretty obscene, so let's leave it at that.
For the last time, I do NOT blame the PRANK as being the cause of it all, and why you keep lying that I do is a mystery. For the last time, I have 100% clearly said I place the lion's share of the blame of the radio station who should never have run with the story, they chose to do so after presumably considered deliberation, and it is them who I mainly blame, for the worldwide media shiitstorm that this terrible decision created. If you are going to comment on my opinions, could you at least not lie about what they are?
I don't have ANY information on her recent medical history and neither do you. If you mean the reports that she had been treated for depression and had recently finished that treatment, if those are accurate then it would seem to me that health professionals likely decided that she was in reasonable health. But what would a psychiatrist and the doctors who treated her know, eh? Shame they didn't just ask you, you could have told them that far from being well, she was on the edge and anything could have tipped her over it. I don't know how you know this, but maybe they should sack the mental health professionals and just ring you for an opinion, eh?
More disingenuous. mocking crap. The only reports there have been seem to suggest that she had been very well cared for since the reported incident apparently 11 months ago, and that she had only quite recently completed anti-depressant treatment. Knowing all this, you still make the silly statement about "all those problems suddenly vanishing". On such information as has come out, I think she had been well treated and finished a reasonably lengthy course of treatment. and was doing a responsible job, reportedly very well.
No, it was "was it even suicide."
No I am not saying "let's wait for the inquest". Agreeing the rather obvious statement that the full facts will only come out at inquest does not operate as a bar to discussing what information is already in the public domain.
I have already said repeatedly that whilst we don't know anything directly about the role of hospital management, we do know the family has been critical of it, and we do know one of the notes left was devoted to the hospital's role. As we know nothing else, and as she took the trouble to write a note about the hospital management prior to killing herself, that is with respect not a great insight.
I think what the radio station did was unacceptable and they should face the consequences. If they have also committed criminal offences then i think they should be prosecuted. I think the decision to broadcast their tape was such a bad error of judgment that it does put in question the fitness of whoever took the decision to continue in their roles.
I would invite you to unconditionally withdraw that. There's no need for it.[/quote]
That last line - you are having a laugh - you need to go back and read this thread, people in glass houses!! Smacks of a bully having his backside handed to him.
If anyone is to blame - and I am not sure anyone is, this is just a very tragic set of circumstances - it is the hospital they should never have left this vulnerable woman in this predicament. Given the fees they will charging they could easily afford to employ the correct calibre of people in the correct positions.
Stevie Wonder can see the lady had significant mental issues - to suggest that anyone who says so is trying to be psychiatrist is trite and smacks of desperation. If you believe Maslow survival is our in built basic instinct - attempting suicide isn't an action of an in control adult.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
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