FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin Workfare judged illegal



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 362 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 ... 37  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:06 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14395
Location: Chester
TrinityIHC wrote:The only reason it upscales like you suggest is that she is spending money intended for her children on keeping livestock. Shouldnt be happening IMO.


What else do you think people on benefits shouldn't be spending their money on? Cigarettes? Beer? Pet food for the family dog? Tub of food for the Goldfish? Should it be a requirement of being on benefits that you have any existing pets put down the moment you become a claimant?

There is no doubt in my mind keeping a horse while on benefits is irresponsible but you can't legislate against that and the fact she manages to do it is no reason to suggest benefits are too high in general. People behave irresponsibly all the time and the tax payer funds it. How many people end up in A&E each week because they play rugby of either code or sport in general? How many people each year need rescuing from the mountains or the sea's?

People need be very careful about trying to legislate against irresponsible behavior or we will soon end up in the situation where if you are in work you can be irresponsible at the tax payers expense but if you are on benefits you can't. Bottom line is people don't really have a right to dictate how people spend their money whether they earn it or receive it as a benefit. We can express our dislike that she is spending it on a horse just as we can express our dislike of any other behavior that has a cost to the tax payer but the demonizing of this woman is not about that. It is purely political.






Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:23 am 
International Board Member
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jun 19 2002
Posts: 14970
Location: Campaigning for a deep attacking line
El Barbudo wrote:Blimey mate, edit that before Iain Duncan Smith sees it.

Bloody hell sorry! Don't want to be putting ideas in their heads. I'm sure they've considered it though. All these freeloading, scrounging kids receiving benefits. They think they're too good to sweep chimneys.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:26 am 
International Board Member
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jun 19 2002
Posts: 14970
Location: Campaigning for a deep attacking line
Do those who think giving vouchers (or whatever system is used to control what people use their benefits for) to benefit recipients is a good idea think that should be applied to all benefits?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:30 am 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Feb 09 2009
Posts: 5032
Him wrote:Do those who think giving vouchers (or whatever system is used to control what people use their benefits for) to benefit recipients is a good idea think that should be applied to all benefits?



Not if their tax credits come as M&S vouchers and their family allowance as book tokens.

Why not go the whole hog and get paid in clubcard vouchers to the besic rate tax level and nectar points at the higher rate.

Cash is so over rated.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:33 am 
International Board Member
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jun 28 2002
Posts: 4961
Location: Outside your remit
DaveO wrote:What else do you think people on benefits shouldn't be spending their money on? Cigarettes? Beer? Pet food for the family dog? Tub of food for the Goldfish? Should it be a requirement of being on benefits that you have any existing pets put down the moment you become a claimant?

There is no doubt in my mind keeping a horse while on benefits is irresponsible but you can't legislate against that and the fact she manages to do it is no reason to suggest benefits are too high in general. People behave irresponsibly all the time and the tax payer funds it. How many people end up in A&E each week because they play rugby of either code or sport in general? How many people each year need rescuing from the mountains or the sea's?

People need be very careful about trying to legislate against irresponsible behavior or we will soon end up in the situation where if you are in work you can be irresponsible at the tax payers expense but if you are on benefits you can't. Bottom line is people don't really have a right to dictate how people spend their money whether they earn it or receive it as a benefit. We can express our dislike that she is spending it on a horse just as we can express our dislike of any other behavior that has a cost to the tax payer but the demonizing of this woman is not about that. It is purely political.


I agree with most of your points, but in reality if someone is being given money to spend on her children then I feel that the taxpayer, who is footing the bill should be able to dictate that the money is spent in that fashion. I recently subbed a mate to allow him to travel down to London to see his ill mother, if I found out that he had in fact been to the pub with the money, I would go spare.

I have absolutely no problem with the state providing assistance to the poor and needy, but it should be assistance and not allow people to enjoy a lifestyle beyond the means of the people who provide.






There's Only One F in Wakefield

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:43 am 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Feb 09 2009
Posts: 5032
TrinityIHC wrote:I agree with most of your points, but in reality if someone is being given money to spend on her children then I feel that the taxpayer, who is footing the bill should be able to dictate that the money is spent in that fashion. I recently subbed a mate to allow him to travel down to London to see his ill mother, if I found out that he had in fact been to the pub with the money, I would go spare.

I have absolutely no problem with the state providing assistance to the poor and needy, but it should be assistance and not allow people to enjoy a lifestyle beyond the means of the people who provide.


Should the taxpayer get a say above and beyond who they vote for in elections???

It would mean a dramatic change in the way the country is run and should a Premiership footballer have more of a say than a road sweeper as they are putting more into the pot.

Not having a go at you in particular but do wish the press would stop giving credance to the Tax Payers Alliance whoever they are but seem to be on the direct dial of every Tory newspaper in the country.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:01 pm 
Player Coach
First Team Player
User avatar

Joined: Nov 19 2005
Posts: 2359
Location: Marys Place, near the River, in Nebraska, Waitin' on A Sunny Day
Him wrote:Do those who think giving vouchers (or whatever system is used to control what people use their benefits for) to benefit recipients is a good idea think that should be applied to all benefits?



No, not a good idea. I still pay for prescriptions for instance. How would a voucher for food help me do that? Besides, I still have (and am entitled to) a life that I spend money on. I couldn't pay for my seasons pass at Hull FC with food vouchers, nor could I do anything socially.






A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.

When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.

Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.


"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:24 pm 
International Board Member
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jun 28 2002
Posts: 4961
Location: Outside your remit
Hull White Star wrote:No, not a good idea. I still pay for prescriptions for instance. How would a voucher for food help me do that? Besides, I still have (and am entitled to) a life that I spend money on. I couldn't pay for my seasons pass at Hull FC with food vouchers, nor could I do anything socially.


The vouchers thing isn't really aimed at those on disability, was thinking more along the lines of child benefit being paid mostly in say food and clothing vouchers, with maybe a cash element for other ad hoc expenses such as toys, prams etc.






There's Only One F in Wakefield

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:31 pm 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Feb 09 2009
Posts: 5032
TrinityIHC wrote:The vouchers thing isn't really aimed at those on disability, was thinking more along the lines of child benefit being paid mostly in say food and clothing vouchers, with maybe a cash element for other ad hoc expenses such as toys, prams etc.



It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut child support is £20 a week and even 10 kids only gets you about £150 a week, give vouchers to 15m people or whatever the number of children (or Under 20s in full time education) is and you are creating a monster for no real reward unless as I said earlier it is tied into a big business where those vouchers have to be spent and that would be just disgraceful.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Workfare judged illegal
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:52 pm 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Jul 22 2007
Posts: 11757
Location: Leeds
I've had to survive on vouchers before whilst I undertook job search training :roll: with a welfare to work company. It was £10 to last all week for lunches and could only be spent in certain places. On the very first day I ended up spending £5 on a modest drink, sandwich and snack deal at one of those posh coffee bars. I could have gone to Tesco's with this voucher and spread the costs over the week by spending £2 every working day but have you seen what lunchtime takeaway is at Tescos :SICK: - I'd rather go a bit hungry than eat crap food which is my choice of course.






//peakwalking.blogspot.co.uk/

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 362 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 ... 37  Next





It is currently Wed Dec 04, 2024 11:07 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Wed Dec 04, 2024 11:07 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
14m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
17m
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
33m
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
34m
IMG scores
FIL
265
46m
Film game
Boss Hog
6002
Recent
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Smiffy27
44
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
Recent
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Douglas Blac
3
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
561
Recent
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
1m
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28923
1m
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
1m
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
1m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63325
2m
2025 Season tickets
Highlander
25
2m
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Smiffy27
44
2m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
3m
New Players
BigTime
150
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
14m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
17m
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
33m
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
34m
IMG scores
FIL
265
46m
Film game
Boss Hog
6002
Recent
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Smiffy27
44
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
Recent
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Douglas Blac
3
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
561
Recent
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
1m
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28923
1m
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
1m
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
1m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63325
2m
2025 Season tickets
Highlander
25
2m
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Smiffy27
44
2m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
3m
New Players
BigTime
150
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.