FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:16 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14845
Him wrote:Labour raised employers NI from 10% to 12.8% over 13 years and during growth. The coalition have raised it to 13.8% during a recessionary period.
It also means very little, if employers NI were abolished then that tax revenue would have to be found elsewhere. The fairest way of doing that is through income tax, so employers would have to pay their employees more to account for the higher income tax. Whether they pay it to the taxman in employers NI or the employee and its then taken in income tax is irrelevant.


Wasn't the 1% rise set out pre-election? It's clearly not irrelevant to the companies concerned, otherwise they'd not do it. It's clearly not irrelevant to the topic under discussion - the growth in part-time employment. So, I'd say it pretty much hit's the nail on the head.

Tesco emply 472,000 people. for simplicity lets assume all work c. 20 hours at c. £7 per hour. Tesco pays no ers NI. If instead it employed 236,000 at c. 40 hours per week, they'd be paying over 236 Million in NI each year. That's one heck of alot of cash. Actually the saving will be less as they get corporation tax relief on the NI, but you'll still be talking best part of £200 M per year. Now multiply those figures by all the other shop workers, cleaners, caterers, etc and who see what is driving part-time working for millions of people. it's government policy. Government benefit as they point to how many jobs have been created or there are in the economy.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:05 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
The so called economic "puzzle" of having more people in work but a GDP that stays resolutely shrunken could be due to many factors.

Pick and mix from the following ...

a) Short term work e.g. Olympics.
b) Lack of confidence, i.e. Having listened to Gideon's doom and gloom comparing us with Greece, people could be sitting on what cash they do have and not spending it, especially when they know he's going to be cutting more in the future.
c) The trend in salaries is almost flat and, if you strip out the lucrative top end, the bottom end is going down (and it's the middle and bottom end whose cash keeps GDP turning over).
d) Privatisation shifts jobs from public to private without any change in GDP but (deceptively) looks like the private sector providing more growth than it is.
e) What are all these supposedly new jobs? If they are all very low paid they will hardly raise GDP by much. Indeed, if new jobs are less well-paid than the existing jobs, they will have a negative effect on GDP.
f) The ONS has been over-stating the recession for years.
g) Much of market economic theory depends on numbers not mood and the mood isn't good.






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:50 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14845
El Barbudo wrote:The so called economic "puzzle" of having more people in work but a GDP that stays resolutely shrunken could be due to many factors.

Pick and mix from the following ...

a) Short term work e.g. Olympics.
b) Lack of confidence, i.e. Having listened to Gideon's doom and gloom comparing us with Greece, people could be sitting on what cash they do have and not spending it, especially when they know he's going to be cutting more in the future.
c) The trend in salaries is almost flat and, if you strip out the lucrative top end, the bottom end is going down (and it's the middle and bottom end whose cash keeps GDP turning over).
d) Privatisation shifts jobs from public to private without any change in GDP but (deceptively) looks like the private sector providing more growth than it is.
e) What are all these supposedly new jobs? If they are all very low paid they will hardly raise GDP by much. Indeed, if new jobs are less well-paid than the existing jobs, they will have a negative effect on GDP.
f) The ONS has been over-stating the recession for years.
g) Much of market economic theory depends on numbers not mood and the mood isn't good.


The big one, which ain't going to go away is competion from the Far East, etc. 9 times as many people are going through industrialisation compared with the West's industrialisation. For along time a small proportion of us have had all the wealth. That's changing fast. As I said on here the other day - we'll need to get used to working longer for less. In Singapore and Hong Kong (were people are on average better off than us after cost of living is adjusted for) they work much longer hours than us - the equivalent of 5 of our working months extra each year! As yo hard work, people in HK live on average a couple of years longer than us. That is the future. You may not like it, may think it's "not fair", but that's the future and we all need to get used to it. Our big hope is that because of difficulties in getting jobs record numbers of youngsters are setting up their own businesses. Whilst most will fail or barely scrape a living some will no doubt become the economic powerhouses of the future.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:11 pm 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Oct 12 2004
Posts: 16271
Dally wrote:The big one, which ain't going to go away is competion from the Far East, etc. 9 times as many people are going through industrialisation compared with the West's industrialisation. For along time a small proportion of us have had all the wealth. That's changing fast. As I said on here the other day - we'll need to get used to working longer for less. In Singapore and Hong Kong (were people are on average better off than us after cost of living is adjusted for) they work much longer hours than us - the equivalent of 5 of our working months extra each year! As yo hard work, people in HK live on average a couple of years longer than us. That is the future. You may not like it, may think it's "not fair", but that's the future and we all need to get used to it. Our big hope is that because of difficulties in getting jobs record numbers of youngsters are setting up their own businesses. Whilst most will fail or barely scrape a living some will no doubt become the economic powerhouses of the future.


Well in victorian times people worked longer hours, and in sweatshops they work longer hours too, and they have crap standards of living






Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019
League Leaders 2011 2016

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:50 am 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14845
sally cinnamon wrote:Well in victorian times people worked longer hours, and in sweatshops they work longer hours too, and they have crap standards of living


and built the accumulated wealth and infrastructure we're still living off.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:10 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Mar 05 2002
Posts: 48326
Location: Londinium
If Osborne's "policy" - I use quotes advisedly - is bearing fruit, then they are strange, and bitter, fruit.






Doubt everything, even this

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:13 am 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
Dally wrote:... we all need to get used to it ...


Good. I hope Titan and your other offspring have to stack shelves, part time, for an agency etc when, even after studying and doing well at school/university, they can't find a decent job.

Your applause then will be magnificent to hear.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:19 am 
Club Coach
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Oct 12 2004
Posts: 16271
Dally wrote:and built the accumulated wealth and infrastructure we're still living off.


We aren't living off the wealth accumulated in Victoria times. They did build some of the early infrastructure granted, although that has all been repaired and upgraded lots of times.

Just working longer hours does not make you a more productive or prosperous society. It's the amount of productivity, ie how much output you can produce from given inputs, that really matters. People say the steel industry in Sheffield has declined but it produces more steel per year these days than it ever has done in history, and more high tech advanced steel products as well. It just doesn't need as much labour input because it is now more efficient.

The wealth and prosperity of society on aggregate has increased significantly over recent decades. Most of this has been due to technological advances, which complement more highly skilled workers, but replace lower skilled workers. That means those at the top with the higher skills have enjoyed the benefits as their labour is worth more and also there is more demand for them hence driving up their wages. Whilst the rest have found the demand for their jobs decreasing and their wages decreasing.






Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019
League Leaders 2011 2016

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:46 pm 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
Mintball wrote:Good. I hope Titan and your other offspring have to stack shelves, part time, for an agency etc when, even after studying and doing well at school/university, they can't find a decent job.



Being pedantic, your statement is not quite the truth, its not common knowledge but supermarkets (or at least the two of the top four that I have knowledge of) DO tend to directly employ ALL of the people in their supermarkets and direct production factories, whereas in their warehouses its more often the fact that agency staff far outnumber direct employees.

I don't know why that should be exactly but I can guess, in fact its not a guess because I know the evidence is there in front of me every time I do my job within their walls, the majority of supermarket jobs are part time (it has to be said, often at the choice of the employee too) whereas warehouses operate on much tighter schedules and are more reliant on having the correct number of bodies on the ground to run smoothly, I say bodies because often it doesn't matter who that body is as long as there is one on site to meet the contract, this is the nature of agency work. The production units aren't so much about bodies on the ground but skill sets on the line hence the need for more control by the employer.

Titan is more likely to find himself a job as a picker in a warehouse than a 20 hour a week shelf stacker.






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:57 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14845
Mintball wrote:Good. I hope Titan and your other offspring have to stack shelves, part time, for an agency etc when, even after studying and doing well at school/university, they can't find a decent job.

Your applause then will be magnificent to hear.


Titan is training to (hopefully) become a high paid professional. If he passes his exams, etc he'll start off n twice the average salary with scope for rapid improvement in pay over the subsequent few years. Mind you, he disn't seem too happy with how last weeks set of exams. went.

Young Miss D didn't want to go to University this year. She has deferred until next year. So, she started tooking for jobs this week working in shops. She took CVs round to local businesses and those in the adjacent town. She's just been 'phoned up by one asking her to start tomorrow. Delivered CV Thursday. Interviewed friday. Offered job today. So, so far as I can see Osborne has got thing going. Let's hope Miss D can work accurately and quick enough now she's going out into that real world.

There are loads of decent jobs around for people who fulfil the criteria.

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next





It is currently Mon Dec 02, 2024 4:12 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 97 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Mon Dec 02, 2024 4:12 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
18m
Film game
Boss Hog
5925
24m
2025 Shirt
Wigg'n
29
26m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2644
Recent
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
Recent
Liam Kay
FIL
54
Recent
Rumours and signings v9
NickyKiss
28913
Recent
Leeds away first up
Scarlet Pimp
55
Recent
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
Recent
Ground Improvements
Wollo-Wollo-
253
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Whino4life
556
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
45s
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
236
50s
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
1m
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
3m
Rumours and signings v9
NickyKiss
28913
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63304
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40839
4m
Betting 2025
karetaker
23
5m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Deadcowboys1
14
6m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
7m
Salford
Chris McKean
65
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
karetaker
30
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
18m
Film game
Boss Hog
5925
24m
2025 Shirt
Wigg'n
29
26m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2644
Recent
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
Recent
Liam Kay
FIL
54
Recent
Rumours and signings v9
NickyKiss
28913
Recent
Leeds away first up
Scarlet Pimp
55
Recent
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
Recent
Ground Improvements
Wollo-Wollo-
253
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Whino4life
556
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
45s
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
236
50s
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
27
1m
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
3m
Rumours and signings v9
NickyKiss
28913
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63304
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40839
4m
Betting 2025
karetaker
23
5m
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Deadcowboys1
14
6m
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
7m
Salford
Chris McKean
65
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
Jake the Peg
10
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Jake the Peg
27
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Vic Mackie
19
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
karetaker
30
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
FIL
51
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.