Sal Paradise wrote:Do we not trade with the likes of China on WTO terms? Who has said anything about zero tariffs?

Sal Paradise wrote:Nobody is saying punish the EU - surely the view was trade talks would undertaken in the spirit of finding a workable solution - can you genuinely say the EU has tried to be constructive? .

Sal Paradise wrote:So why are the EU looking to replace Barnier if he is doing such a great job!!

The Ghost of '99 wrote:I mean the fact you actually believe this story shows how much false news you have been consuming. Dear oh dear.

The Ghost of '99 wrote:Yes we do. So we just apply the same tariffs as we do on Chinese imports to European ones. Simple! Until you realise what that actually means!

Yes, anyone who isn't fed by a drip of right wing propaganda knows they have. There are a bunch on off the shelf solutions, Norway, Switzerland, even Canada etc, so we've seen what sort of things we can achieve given what the EU countries will accept. They've actually offered movement in quite a few areas that would be better than these.

But the British continue to demand things which simply can't be offered. That's not a failing to be constructive, it's just fact as to what the community's red lines are and what will be vetoed by any particular country. And the interests of the Republic of Ireland are given an outsize importance given how things will impact them.

But yes, obviously they hold the whip hand in these negotiations so any deal we get isn't exactly going to be particularly favourable given the relative power dynamics. Like us they are looking after their own interests first. But this has been made clear all along and shouldn't come as some surprise to you.

The Ghost of '99 wrote:Just on state aid, it's a bit tiresome but Tories really do need to learn the difference between their governments ideologically refusing to help uk industries with it being disallowed under EU state aid rules. Another vast bundle of misinformation lies behind some of the stuff they come out with in this area when it's in reality been their own government stiffing them all along.

Sal Paradise wrote:Let's see who is right shall we?

Mild Rover wrote:The thing is, even if they decided a new voice might help, they’d still need to fundamentally change their position. Barnier isn’t just making it up - he’s got clear guidance on his remit.

The problem is that the U.K. wants things that undermine the principles that hold the EU together. Their concerns about that are just as pressing as brexiteer concerns about complete, unequivocal, unshared sovereignty for the U.K.

So there’s no landing zone for a meaningful deal, and we need to prepare for the consequences of that. And the opportunities, as well - which will be quicker and easier, at least.