majorhound wrote:Trump seems determined to try and undermine and undo whatever the Obama administration did. I think it's a personal thing with him. But apparently those providing the rationale for this latest outburst, are the self same people who said that Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. And we all know where that led us. Our government should be warned by Blair's mistakes and steer well clear. Hang on for the November mid-terms and hope they destroy his majority in the Congress. IMO that would stop his gallop.
I actually think that Trump believes he can do anything and whether he is right or wrong, he will get his own way until someone is brave enough to stand up to him. Let's face it, with the possible exception of Russia, The USA have more weapons than anyone else and if he's prepared to look serious, he will prevail, until someone ants to test him and then we could all be in trouble.
It does seem strange that Obama and the more powerful EU nations thought that the current deal would maintain peace and yet, The Donald, a man with little previous political experience, thinks that everyone else was wrong.
Right now, after his "success" with Korea, he probably feels indestructible.
Joined: Jan 30 2005 Posts: 7152 Location: one day closer to death
While I'm absolutely a supporter of improving relations with Iran, this deal always had enormous question marks over it.
For starters, it's widely known Iran acquired ex-Soviet nuclear weapons from Kazakhstan, Ukraine and North Korea, and has most likely developed and tested a nuclear weapon of its own design in North Korea.
So whether they're allowed to enrich plutonium to weapons-grade quality is largely irrelevant. They have the means and the knowledge - and possibly the weapons - already. Indeed, they've just said they could achieve weapons-grade enrichment in a matter of days.
Iran remain as committed to their programme of aggressive expansion in the region as their adversaries, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Their influence in Iraq and the proxy war in Syria is evidence enough of that. I could never shake the feeling Iran got the best of all worlds from the deal.
Joined: May 08 2002 Posts: 9565 Location: 10 mins walk from Suncorp Stadium
There's a bit of a 'Gorby effect' with respect to Obama, whereby the outside world seems to want to lionise everything he did whilst in his own country he had a lot of detractors.
That's not to say Trump has any real strategy with respect to Iran, but the deal had a 'peace in our time' feel to it, and a lot of people had reservations about it giving away a lot for not very much.
BrisbaneRhino wrote:There's a bit of a 'Gorby effect' with respect to Obama, whereby the outside world seems to want to lionise everything he did whilst in his own country he had a lot of detractors.
That's not to say Trump has any real strategy with respect to Iran, but the deal had a 'peace in our time' feel to it, and a lot of people had reservations about it giving away a lot for not very much.
The Iran deal was a real politik deal. Iran is a large country with a large population. If they don't find one way of expanding their power, they'll find another. This deal steered them down a track acceptable to the west. Trump is a monomaniac, who hates everything Obama stood for and spent years accusing him of not being born in the US, and thus a fraud. IMO Trump is a disaster for the US and the rest of us. Worse than Bush. But because of the ridiculous US electoral system they're stuck with him and so are the rest of us. G W Bush who was also elected on a minority of the vote proved that given hold of the levers of power it's possible to get re-elected. He turned out to be a disaster, and this guy IMO is worse. The attacks by Israel on Iranian units in Syria today indicated that Israel feels Iran is fair game, and the brakes are off. The claim that they are responding to an Iranian attack have the flavour of the Gleiwitz incident which was the Nazis' excuse for the invasion of Poland.
BrisbaneRhino wrote:There's a bit of a 'Gorby effect' with respect to Obama, whereby the outside world seems to want to lionise everything he did whilst in his own country he had a lot of detractors.
That's not to say Trump has any real strategy with respect to Iran, but the deal had a 'peace in our time' feel to it, and a lot of people had reservations about it giving away a lot for not very much.
The Iran deal was a real politik deal. Iran is a large country with a large population. If they don't find one way of expanding their power, they'll find another. This deal steered them down a track acceptable to the west. Trump is a monomaniac, who hates everything Obama stood for and spent years accusing him of not being born in the US, and thus a fraud. IMO Trump is a disaster for the US and the rest of us. Worse than Bush. But because of the ridiculous US electoral system they're stuck with him and so are the rest of us. G W Bush who was also elected on a minority of the vote proved that given hold of the levers of power it's possible to get re-elected. He turned out to be a disaster, and this guy IMO is worse. The attacks by Israel on Iranian units in Syria today indicated that Israel feels Iran is fair game, and the brakes are off. The claim that they are responding to an Iranian attack have the flavour of the Gleiwitz incident which was the Nazis' excuse for the invasion of Poland.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 31939 Location: The Corridor of Uncertainty
The inconsistency of approach when you compare how the West deals with Iran and Saudi Arabia is what gets me. Both regimes are autocratic theocracies that have a malign influence on neighbouring countries and ones further afield. Yet despite that one gets a free pass.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Iran's huge increase in military spending since the deal was signed is worrying, as is their continued sponsorship of Hamas and Hezbollah. However, the huge increase in military spending at a time of borderline economic crisis, and declining living standards for the Iranian public saw public trust and approval of the ayatollah's regime at a near all time low, with protests erupting all over the country. Another year of currency deflation and economic hardship could well have seen the toppling of this stain of a regime, but pulling out of the deal has vindicated the Iranian hardliners' distrust of America and the skepticism towards the deal. Now it seems like the only way we'll see regime change in Iran is through external intervention as a diplomatic solution now seems further away than it did when Ahmadinejad was Prime minister.
King Monkey wrote:Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
Why don't the Republicans behave like any other political party in defeat. OK parties don't like losing power. Bu the Republicans, going right back to Kennedy seem to really resent losing power, and attempt to undermine, denigrate and try to remove the Democrat incumbent. I've been reading a book, Kennedy, The Road to Dallas, given the hatred, and I mean tangible hatred in that city for Kennedy, it is no surprise that he was killed. OK Oswald was a Communist supporter, but I reckon that someone pretending to sympathise put him up to it. Then we have Clinton. they had the majority in the Congress and spent a minimum of $30m taxpayers cash trying to pin something on him. Now we have Obama, and Trump never fails to try and undo anything Obama has done. Reading the Kennedy book, there must be some really screwy nasty people in the Republican party, and effectively they are the government of the most powerful nation on earth. Scary.
Bullseye wrote:The inconsistency of approach when you compare how the West deals with Iran and Saudi Arabia is what gets me. Both regimes are autocratic theocracies that have a malign influence on neighbouring countries and ones further afield. Yet despite that one gets a free pass.
Because Iran doesn’t directly buy arms from the West. Upset the Saudis and the west will go bankrupt. That’s the difference. The Saudis blatant disregard for human rights is astounding and ‘Murica and the tories do nothing about it, but should a tiny country that no one has ever heard of decide to jail someone for theft then the west will rain missiles on them. It’s all about money
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