FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin The Labour party leadership thread



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 245 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 25  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:12 am 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: May 25 2002
Posts: 37704
Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Of those mentioned so far, here's my take:

Yvette Cooper - too close to Ed Balls, mention of him would be continuous and keep dragging her back

Chuka Umunna - personable enough, good communicator but he'll be subjected to closet racism in the same way that Miliband suffered closet anti-semitism

Andy Burnham - good orator, cheeky chappy but will always be saddled with "North Staffs killing 1200 people"

Liz Kendall - intelligent, excellent orator. About the only thing the Wail will find wrong is that she's not married and her partner is a comedian

None of them get me excited but of the lot, I'd go for Kendall






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:23 am 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 05 2001
Posts: 25122
Location: Aleph Green
I'm sure "New" New Labour will follow what's been its traditional policy since Harold Wilson's days of jumping further to the right with each successive iteration whilst further selling out its core principles. It's now so far from the Labour Party of the post-war years it might as well drop the appellation "Labour" altogether.

The truth of the matter is that even at the height of its ideological fervour - Labour was always a half-hearted at attempt at socialism. If anything the party was created as a buffer against true socialism breaking out in Britain with the creation of the NHS serving as a payoff to the electorate for the sufferings of two savage wars.

I mean, people talk about Blair selling the party down the river - but Harold Wilson did as much damage if not more so.

I might not agree with Peter O'Borne's politics - but he's absolutely correct in saying there are no longer any real divisions between Labour, the Conservatives and the Lib-Dems. There exists only one party in Westminster (excluding the SNP for the time being) which has multiple factions. They might bicker and scheme and war against each other - but should the system as a whole be threatened (such as happened during MP's expenses) they'll immediately coalesce into a tight group, raise their shields and like a Roman turtle advancing determinedly toward a jeering band of rock-hurling Visigoths they'll wipe the obnoxious, upstart proles from the battlefield.

Blair was arguably the first all-out political opportunist (and perhaps still the best example) - but Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are all his spiritual progeny to some lesser or greater extent.

Not that they have much freedom of self-determination. We live in a global marketplace dominated by enormous multi-national conglomerates, super-power and approaching-super-power states etc. all of whose influence borders upon the unimaginable by comparison.

Instead of wielding comprehensive and conspicuous real-world power as prime ministers during the days of the British Empire (and immediately in the wake of WWII) once did - today's incarnations are little more the middle-managers whose job it is to take the fall for the true architects of power (international banking, trans-national corporations, defence contractors, big oil etc.)

Once their term in office is concluded they are handsomely rewarded with lucrative positions on the boards of several corporations (even John Major managed to get himself onto the board of the Carlyle Group) and they largely disappear from view. Which is surely antithetical to democracy since an ex-prime minister is arguably the best person possible to provide the electorate with experienced analysis and criticism of those in power.

The fourth estate gave the Tories a pretty easy time of it last term. But you can bet they'll be after Cameron like salivating dogs chasing the hare at Belle Vue this. Oh the self-righteousness will be cranked up to maximum (especially in the Guardian) as Tory cuts bite deep. After all, SOMEONE must stand up for the people ( :lol: ). But the reality is (whether they know it or not) they are merely baiting the electorate for the absolute necessity of voting Labour next time around. And so the carnival just keeps rollin' on.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 1:04 pm 
International Chairman
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 9721
Location: Cougarville
Lord Elpers wrote:Too close to the Unions

:CRAZY: :lol:

You don't read much do you.

Isn't Cameron too close to his unions?






regards
and ENJOY your sport

Leaguefan

"The Public wants what the Public gets" - Paul Weller

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:20 pm 
International Chairman
First Team Player
User avatar

Joined: Feb 20 2002
Posts: 1437
Location: Leigh, where else?
The 'Labour' Party are so far removed from their supposed core vote they should be sued for misrepresentation. I predict that every potential leadership candidate will try and move the party even further to the right in the illusion that this is why they are losing votes. As supposedly proven in several surveys immigration adds a net economic positive to the country as a whole BUT the bottom 20% end up WORSE OFF. That's why IMO a lot of traditional Labour voter who tend to lives in a micro-bubble are turning to UKIP. They don't fully understand how a global economy functions but they have enough common sense to realise that more competition for low paid jobs drives down wages even further.

Scotland's rejection of U.K pro-austerity parties shows that the working classes want a turn to the LEFT. Unfortunately Labour sold their souls to the City of London and the banksters in charge years ago and they cannot see that pandering to these financial fraudsters is slowly killing the country.






"If the American people knew tonight, exactly how the monetary and banking system worked, there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
-Abraham Lincoln

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:50 am 
International Board Member
International Board Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 10 2003
Posts: 29214
Location: Warrington
LeighGionaire wrote:The 'Labour' Party are so far removed from their supposed core vote they should be sued for misrepresentation. I predict that every potential leadership candidate will try and move the party even further to the right in the illusion that this is why they are losing votes. As supposedly proven in several surveys immigration adds a net economic positive to the country as a whole BUT the bottom 20% end up WORSE OFF. That's why IMO a lot of traditional Labour voter who tend to lives in a micro-bubble are turning to UKIP. They don't fully understand how a global economy functions but they have enough common sense to realise that more competition for low paid jobs drives down wages even further.

Scotland's rejection of U.K pro-austerity parties shows that the working classes want a turn to the LEFT. Unfortunately Labour sold their souls to the City of London and the banksters in charge years ago and they cannot see that pandering to these financial fraudsters is slowly killing the country.


I'm not all that well up on politics, so don't understand this. One of the most common criticisms of Milliband's Labour was that his manifesto was too far left and ignored the centre-left. You seem to be encouraging them to do exactly what they already did?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:59 am 
International Chairman
International Star

Joined: Apr 10 2002
Posts: 6038
Location: Bradford
Saddened! wrote:I'm not all that well up on politics, so don't understand this. One of the most common criticisms of Milliband's Labour was that his manifesto was too far left and ignored the centre-left. You seem to be encouraging them to do exactly what they already did?


Its standard practice after an election defeat, whether Tory or Labour. "we would have won if only we had been more left/right wing". Ignoring the overwhelming evidence that being too left/right wing is why they lost.

Its peculiar to the world of politics, the belief that if you do more of the things that make you unpopular, you will suddenly become popular

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:25 am 
Club Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Jan 30 2005
Posts: 7152
Location: one day closer to death
LeighGionaire wrote:Scotland's rejection of U.K pro-austerity parties shows that the working classes want a turn to the LEFT. Unfortunately Labour sold their souls to the City of London and the banksters in charge years ago and they cannot see that pandering to these financial fraudsters is slowly killing the country.

Not true. The failed independence vote sealed the fate of Scotland, and it amazes me anyone expressed surprise at the GE results. Almost without fail, nationalist Scots flocked to the SNP banner - or at least enough to guarantee seats. A cursory glance at social media told me that much, and many Scots I know joined the SNP - including right-wingers, despite their core values. It was less Nicola Sturgeon than it was Mel Gibson.

Similarly with much of English working class Labour vote. Don't mistake the old traditional died-in-the-wool Labour vote with left-leaning beliefs. That loyalty lingers thanks to decades of the unions and a laudable yet slightly illogical loyalty to the family vote. Most of the working class I know care little for leftist policies, they want plenty of work at a decent wage, immigrants out, terrorists dead, paedos castrated and cheap beer and fags. The union loyalty is dying out and UKIP are the only party saying what they're thinking.

I've said it many times. You could drink in a working men's club or pub and hear conversations that would make Nick Griffin whince, yet those same men would go out and vote Labour. Union/family loyalty, nothing more.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:48 am 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 05 2001
Posts: 25122
Location: Aleph Green
Saddened! wrote:I'm not all that well up on politics, so don't understand this. One of the most common criticisms of Milliband's Labour was that his manifesto was too far left and ignored the centre-left. You seem to be encouraging them to do exactly what they already did?


Since the turn of the last century (and certainly with the arrival of the Nazi Party in Germany when the practice really began to gear up) it's been common to see political entities which anyone prior to WWII would consider "Right Wing" dress themselves in the clothes of the Left. Basically it's the promise of socialism without socialism.

As mentioned, the Nazi Party really were the masters of this black art. Those on the Right never cease to gleefully point out the "Socialist" in National Socialism. But the Nazi Party, whilst promising a socialist revolution, never had any intentions of delivering such.

True, there was a social element to Nazism. A strong one, too. But this was primarily centred around the Cult of Leadership, sexual politics and the nations rampant war economy.

You have to remember, the Nazis were in direct competition with the socialists during the time of the Wiemar Republic. So it was politically expedient to blur the definition of socialism in order to capture new members.

The true litmus test of whether Nazism equated to socialism was the question of labour. A truly socialist system embraces labour unions. Indeed, such are at the very core of policy. The Nazis embraced labour unions - and then murdered them.

Comparing Milliband's Labour with Nazism is somewhat extreme. But it's fundamentally the same argument. Labour is not a socialist party. It is not a "Left Wing" party (or even centrist).

Labour is a right wing party. The Conservative Party is further to the right. UKIP are not too distant from fascist.

I should say that the entire parliamentary political class (I don't consider today's political parties exist in any form other than name - which means this is effectively a one party state with multiple factions) will likely take two steps further to the right this term. And yes, unless this trend is reversed or diverted somehow (how, I'm not sure) we are going to have problems in the future.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:15 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14395
Location: Chester
Saddened! wrote:I'm not all that well up on politics, so don't understand this. One of the most common criticisms of Milliband's Labour was that his manifesto was too far left and ignored the centre-left. You seem to be encouraging them to do exactly what they already did?


That criticism is unfounded because it wasn't left wing at all.

About the most left wing things they proposed were allowing existing departments in hospitals to bid to provide services (such as radiology or whatever) whereas the Tories exclude them (only private companies allowed to bid...) and allowing rail franchises to be run as the east coat main line was rather than be compulsorily sold off.

If you thought they were left wing its because the propaganda worked.






Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The Labour party leadership thread
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:16 pm 
International Chairman
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14845
Cronus wrote:I've said it many times. You could drink in a working men's club or pub and hear conversations that would make Nick Griffin whince, yet those same men would go out and vote Labour. Union/family loyalty, nothing more.


That statement just shows the confusion that people thinking in daft so called "left" and "right" terms causes.

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 245 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 25  Next





It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:57 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 155 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:57 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
7m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2600
32m
Film game
Boss Hog
5687
Recent
Planning for next season
LeytherRob
182
Recent
Salford placed in special measures
asmadasa
95
Recent
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
MjM
16
Recent
Salford
karetaker
26
Recent
Its all gone a bit quiet
Returnwr to
23
Recent
Ground Improvements
vastman
171
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
mwindass
4032
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
52s
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
504
1m
Its all gone a bit quiet
Returnwr to
23
1m
2025 merchandise
BarnsleyGull
17
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63242
2m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
24
3m
Salford
karetaker
26
4m
Dual Reg
The Phantom
11
5m
Film game
Boss Hog
5687
6m
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
8m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40749
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
REDWHITEANDB
14
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
karetaker
26
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
FIL
50
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Big lads mat
22
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
949
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
587
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1319
England's Women Demolish The W..
1146
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1377
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1173
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1430
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1972
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2179
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2420
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1989
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2227
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2697
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2121
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2195
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
7m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
chapylad
2600
32m
Film game
Boss Hog
5687
Recent
Planning for next season
LeytherRob
182
Recent
Salford placed in special measures
asmadasa
95
Recent
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
MjM
16
Recent
Salford
karetaker
26
Recent
Its all gone a bit quiet
Returnwr to
23
Recent
Ground Improvements
vastman
171
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
mwindass
4032
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
52s
Transfer Talk V5
ArthurClues
504
1m
Its all gone a bit quiet
Returnwr to
23
1m
2025 merchandise
BarnsleyGull
17
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63242
2m
Super League
Dr Dreadnoug
24
3m
Salford
karetaker
26
4m
Dual Reg
The Phantom
11
5m
Film game
Boss Hog
5687
6m
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
8m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40749
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
REDWHITEANDB
14
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
karetaker
26
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
FIL
50
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Big lads mat
22
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
949
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
587
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1319
England's Women Demolish The W..
1146
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1377
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1173
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1430
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1972
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2179
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2420
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1989
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2227
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2697
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2121
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2195


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.