I think all it shows is that people in charge of companies are generally just like me and you, some a re good some are not.
Generally, in the past 10 -15 years people getting into positions of power are either good ass lickers of from the family of the owners of the firm, very few actually have any long term experience of making companies work or running them with any kind of competency.
Having worked for 6 FTSE 100 companies, it's clear to me that the vast majority of good business managers have all been made redundant taken over by people who can talk a good talk.
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:53 am
ROBINSON
Club Coach
Joined: Oct 09 2004 Posts: 14135
I've said many times on this forum that just because one person is a great/ruthless/evil/magnificent/whatever, but SUCCESSFUL businessman, it doesn't mean his descendants will be the same.
I've seen many great businesses go to the wall when a less able family member takes over.
"I've not come 'alfway round t'world fot watch us lose. And I've come halfway round t'world, an' av watched um lose"
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:57 am
Red John
International Board Member
Joined: Mar 13 2003 Posts: 1642
Sadfish wrote:I think all it shows is that people in charge of companies are generally just like me and you, some a re good some are not.
Generally, in the past 10 -15 years people getting into positions of power are either good ass lickers of from the family of the owners of the firm, very few actually have any long term experience of making companies work or running them with any kind of competency.
Having worked for 6 FTSE 100 companies, it's clear to me that the vast majority of good business managers have all been made redundant taken over by people who can talk a good talk.
How can this be true? Surely the vast remuneration packages on offer ensure that the "best talent" is attracted.
Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:00 am
Mintball
All Time Great
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
Red John wrote:How can this be true? Surely the vast remuneration packages on offer ensure that the "best talent" is attracted.
Never mind that: if you read certain posts on this forum, you'll know that all managers know best, all managers are good and all managers are infinitely better than their workers – especially when said workers organise into parasitic unions.
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Sadfish wrote:I think all it shows is that people in charge of companies are generally just like me and you, some a re good some are not.
Generally, in the past 10 -15 years people getting into positions of power are either good ass lickers of from the family of the owners of the firm, very few actually have any long term experience of making companies work or running them with any kind of competency.
Having worked for 6 FTSE 100 companies, it's clear to me that the vast majority of good business managers have all been made redundant taken over by people who can talk a good talk.
How can this be true? Surely the vast remuneration packages on offer ensure that the "best talent" is attracted.
haha the Company chairman role of large conglomorates, is like a merry go round of old boys.
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:14 am
Red John
International Board Member
Joined: Mar 13 2003 Posts: 1642
Mintball wrote:
Red John wrote:How can this be true? Surely the vast remuneration packages on offer ensure that the "best talent" is attracted.
Never mind that: if you read certain posts on this forum, you'll know that all managers know best, all managers are good and all managers are infinitely better than their workers – especially when said workers organise into parasitic unions.
He can't help it. He was building a teleportation device, and just as he was about to test it a small but fully formed Digby Jones got into the machine with him, leading to this strange human/Digby hybrid.
I've often wondered about the value of our CEOs. Last month, a number of worthless, bone idle, parasitic public sector staff went on strike and, despite their worthlessness, there was an obvious impact on the economy and on the country in general. What would happen if all CEOs went on strike tomorrow? Would anyone notice? Given what James Murdoch appears to have "not known", you have to wonder.
Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:32 am
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
ROBINSON wrote:I've said many times on this forum that just because one person is a great/ruthless/evil/magnificent/whatever, but SUCCESSFUL businessman, it doesn't mean his descendants will be the same.
I've seen many great businesses go to the wall when a less able family member takes over.
And yet when you look (again) at Germany and the Mittelstand (I posted a link on another thread) companies, they rarely seem to fail when one generation hands over to the next. Maybe it's a mind-set that they are only custodians of the company and ownership is not an end in itself?
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:43 am
Dally
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14845
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:
Dally wrote:At the end of the day its just an update on a legal matter which his in house team were dealing with him. Myler's brief bullet points for his attention were suggesting a meeting. Why would he read all the detail underneath when he could be updated in a couple of minutes in person?
Don't be so stupid. Having contradicted his people twice in committee, he now has to claim he never read anything which would mean he did not tell the truth. His only alternative would be to put his hands up and say "OK, fair cop, I knew". To suggest that he got an email but only read a bit of it is as ludicrous as it gets. And if you consider the seriousness of the subject, then Murdoch not reading all of it simply beggars belief. You must be the world's most gullible man if you believe that.
Anyway, the email to Myler proves he lied. If he had not previously discussed the Taylor case with Myler, how could he be getting "an update"? If "it is as bad as we feared" why would we have feared it being bad, if in fact we knew feck all about "it"? The natural reply then would have been - "Colin - eh? What are you talking about"?
The emails from Crone to Myler, which Myler simply forwarded on to Murdoch, are similarly full of ammunition. What - a deal to be offered that's going to cost £700K, and the way to inform your gaffer of it for the first time is just to forward an email? Do you really credit that?
That email also refers to the "further nightmare scenario" relating to the hacking of the PFA solicitor's phone. Again - do you seriously believe that such a fundamentally grave disclosure would first be made to Murdoch by a forwarded email? Really?
The copy email from Julian Pike, the solicitor, states on only the 4th line that Gordon Taylor wanted to show that what happened to him was "rife throughout the organisation". This email states that Taylor's lawyer wants over £1m to settle or else his client wants to see his infernal organisation "hung out to dry". You actually credit that anyone would "inform" their boss for the first time of such a case, at such an advanced stage, simply by a forwarded email?
I'm sorry, but I don't believe a word he says. And if he has not been dissembling, then he must be the world's worst manager, and must have had some of the craziest staff.
If you read the emails, JRM replied within 3 minutes of CM having sent him the email. He's presumably socialising / on the move at the time - he will have read JUST the few lines from CM and so it is, IMO, entirely credible that he did not read the rest. His reply only talks about meeting or CM calling him. Much easier for a quick chat than reading all that guff.
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:46 am
Dally
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14845
Mintball wrote:
Red John wrote:How can this be true? Surely the vast remuneration packages on offer ensure that the "best talent" is attracted.
Never mind that: if you read certain posts on this forum, you'll know that all managers know best, all managers are good and all managers are infinitely better than their workers – especially when said workers organise into parasitic unions.
Managers, as opposed to leaders, are just a waste of space IMO. I appreciate they are needed in big organisations, but in most smaller companies they are just a waste of a salary. They get in the way, stifle initiative and generally deduct value.
Post subject: Re: James Murdoch is either a liar or thick as donkey droppi
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:06 pm
ROBINSON
Club Coach
Joined: Oct 09 2004 Posts: 14135
Red John wrote:
Sadfish wrote:I think all it shows is that people in charge of companies are generally just like me and you, some a re good some are not.
Generally, in the past 10 -15 years people getting into positions of power are either good ass lickers of from the family of the owners of the firm, very few actually have any long term experience of making companies work or running them with any kind of competency.
Having worked for 6 FTSE 100 companies, it's clear to me that the vast majority of good business managers have all been made redundant taken over by people who can talk a good talk.
How can this be true? Surely the vast remuneration packages on offer ensure that the "best talent" is attracted.
Not necessarily. There's only so much you can get from interviewing someone, and the job invariably goes to the applicant who talks the best game.
"I've not come 'alfway round t'world fot watch us lose. And I've come halfway round t'world, an' av watched um lose"
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